Curse

Tirzan · Apr 30, 2011, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Which build is the better in damage dealing and why? I'm considering to try to throw a couple in the 4 mesmers teambuild i'm working at, so I'd like your opinion about it.
+/- of each?

Califorun · May 01, 2011, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Well I have tried both, but only a little bit.

Keystone is very nice because you can use any signets regardless of attribute due to Symbolic Celerity, which allows you to bring things like Death Pact Signet or Signet of Return for a powerful, quick resurrection. You also don't have to worry about energy problems on this build obviously.

Energy Surge, on the other hand, is better offensively due to energy denial and larger AoE damage.

Overall I'd say Energy Surge is better simply because it does a lot more damage, and you can throw on Unnatural Signet and Cry of Frustration and accomplish essentially the same things of the Keystone build and more... just make sure to have Power Drain and Waste Not Want Not for energy management.

Mig Coconut · May 01, 2011, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Esurge has more range, and you can bring many good other dom skills like mistrust, backfire, empathy.

Keystone has no energy problems, so you can bring some bonds like strength of honor. It also functions as an aoe interrupt. While this is normally helpful, it may affect the usefulness of VoR, SS, and Panic.

Heroes, in my experience, use keystone poorly.

Kunder · May 01, 2011, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Keystone is great when you want to maintain a crapload of SoHs. Like, multiple melee rangers + their pets or something (pity AI is bad enough to make this not all too viable with heroes). Also, Hex Eater Signet is amazing for hex cleanup. But ES builds definitely output more damage.

AndrewSX · May 01, 2011, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Esurge: more damage, larger AoE, hero friendly.
-Must take e-management and rupts.

Keystone spammer: aoe rupts, simbolic celerity+mantra for spam sig regardless of att, nearly no energy use.
-Smaller AoE, poor on heroes, depends heavy on a ench(simbolic) and on a single skill (KS:if interrupted/diverted/disabled or whatever the build lose most of effectiveness) and a single skill type(ignorance, primal echoes= complete shutdonw).

Both are awesome if used correctly tought.

majoho · May 01, 2011, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Califorun

Energy Surge, on the other hand, is better offensively due to energy denial and larger AoE damage.

As I recall e-denial doesn't really work in PvE (which was one of the reasons mesmers used to suck).

The damage part is right though.

Califorun · May 03, 2011, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Good call. I don't play Mesmer, so I wasn't sure about the whole energy denial thing... it shouldn't matter anyways since the goal is to AoE through as many enemies as quickly as possible in PvE before they become a threat, instead of trying to run the monsters out of energy. =)

Edit: It basically sounds like Keystone is good in theory but the AI is very poor at using it; I have experienced this to an extent... I only tried Keystone on heroes briefly and it seemed very lackluster - in fact I did not even notice the hero's damage. If you yourself play a Mesmer, I'd suggest perhaps running Keystone or Panic, and then having your heroes carry the Energy Surges.

madriel222 · May 03, 2011, 05:06 AM // 05:06

The problem with keystone mesmer heroes is that heroes are only going to use the signets on their builds as the signets were intended, not adjusting for the functionality given by keystone. That means that they'll wait for a skill for Signet of Disruption, try to get an attacking foe with Bane Signet (not necessarily bad, just making a point), and so forth. The whole point of bringing a keystone mesmer is for a quick spike that can offer some additional utility because it doesn't rely at all on energy. Is this added utility worth the subpar usage of the keystone build? I don't think so.

I might be a little biased though, as I'm rolling through ZV's right now with 4xE-Surge, 1 Panic, 1 Shared Burden...oh well.

Fierabras · May 03, 2011, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Would u mind sharing ur builds?

Gabs88 · May 03, 2011, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Keystone heroes dont spam their skills nearly as much as a human would.

Axel Zinfandel · May 03, 2011, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Keystone is only good when you're looking for utility. The low energy cost of the build allows them to spec and bring normally high demanding skills like SoH, orders, or even prot bonding in theory, since you'd be able to use Blessed Signet

Daesu · May 03, 2011, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Heroes don't use symbolic celerity well, casting signets with 0 attributes at times.

Keystone builds work better on the player than on heroes.